Husk mig
▼ Indhold

Science fiction-litteratur og klima


Science fiction-litteratur og klima29-07-2009 13:27
sg17a
★★☆☆☆
(375)
Der er en interresant bog / trilogi som hedder Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars af Kim Stanley Robinson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Mars

Trilogien omhandler bl. andet terraforming på Mars og hvordan den kan koloniseres, hvordan de arbejder med atmosfæren og gradvis får en levedygtig planet. Jeg synes det har nogle interessant aspekter.

En anden spændende ting er introduktionen til 'Ecoeconomics', dvs en bæredygtigt økonomi. Noget vi er ved gradvis at indføre i vores samfund. Men spændende at se hvordan det er tænkt 20 år siden.

God sommerlæsning.

thomas


~thomas wernberg
Redigeret d. 30-07-2009 09:57
RE: Heat: af Arthur Herzog, 197729-07-2009 13:50
Fafner
★☆☆☆☆
(52)
Dette er en klassiker. Fra omslaget:

"The climate has gone haywire. Due to CO2 build-up, lethal heat steadily envelops the Earth. Roads melt. Bridges buckle. Crops rot. The sick die. Armies of rats roam freely over the city. Everywhere buildings burn out of control"

Selv vore dages AGW "alarmister" er dog ikke kommet dertil endnu, men det skal nok komme. I takt med at temperaturen flader ud, bliver debatten mere skinger.
29-07-2009 21:40
brinchProfilbillede★★☆☆☆
(313)
sg17a skrev:
Der er en interresant bog / trilogi som hedder Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars af Kim Stanley Robinson.

Trilogien omhandler bl. andet terraforming på Mars og hvordan den kan koloniseres, hvordan de arbejder med atmosfæren og gradiv for en levedygtig planet. Jeg synes det har nogle interessant aspekter.

thomas


Ja - så fandt jeg da ud af, hvad det specielle brugernavn sg17a betyder! - Jeg har boet ganske tæt på for en del år siden.

Derimod er det ikke lykkedes mig at forstå ordet "gradiv"! Jeg har tænkt på, om det kunne være en tastefejl men må give op.

Iøvrigt findes der masser af science fiction, der handler om terraforming og om klimaekstremer. En klassisk forfatter indenfor genren er J G Ballard, der for næsten 50 år siden udgav bogen "The Drowned World" og senere iøvrigt "The Drought" (tørken). De skal nu nok ikke forstås som profetiske ift Jordens klima men handler nærmere om mennesket udsat for ekstremer.

Venligst brinch
30-07-2009 10:06
sg17a
★★☆☆☆
(375)
Jeg fik rettet min tekst til noget mere forståeligt dansk. Det sker jo at man rammer touchpad og markøren hopper mærkelige stæder hen. Men jeg tog Red Mars frem fordi den som noget af det første tog bæredygtighed og økonomi op på en ny måde, længe før politikerne fandt på at kalde det for grøn afgift.

Ballards to bøger er meget interessante men som du skriver også begrænset af tidpunktet de er skrevet.

Jeg fandt denne liste, hvor der er mulighed for lidt ekstra. Listen er nok mere science fiction end fiktion med klima i fokus, og det skulle ikke undre mig at forlagene de seneste år er blevet bombarderet med litteratur efter klimadebatten eskalerede. Listen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apocalyptic_and_post-apocalyptic_fiction#Ecological_catastrophe


~thomas wernberg
30-07-2009 10:36
Jakob
★★★★★
(5469)
.



Hvis man vil lave science fiction om klima, så må det blive en solstrålehistorie, hvor kloden er stabil og viser omsorg for sine beboere.

Hvis man vil lave film om skræk, gys, aktion, nød og katastrofe, så kan man nok næppe gøre noget bedre end at lave en dokumentarudsendelse om jorden baseret på videnskabelige fakta.




@sg17a

Tror du, at det er muligt i virkeligheden at skabe en atmosfære og gøre Mars beboelig for mennesker..?



.
30-07-2009 11:07
sg17a
★★☆☆☆
(375)
Jakob skrev:
Tror du, at det er muligt i virkeligheden at skabe en atmosfære og gøre Mars beboelig for mennesker..?

Nej, Ikke med den teknologi var besidder i dag. At gå fra 1 kPa CO2 til en atmosfære som vi menneske kan indånde er der meget langt, og der skal godt nok udledes nogle gasser til atmosfæren. Dersuden er Mars er for lille til at holde på de fleste gasser.

På den anden side så må mars være lidt nemmere at påvirke klimatisk end jorden, da mars ikke har alle disse forstyrrende havstrømme og kontinenter.

... men det er jo det spændende med science fiction.


~thomas wernberg
30-07-2009 11:10
Fafner
★☆☆☆☆
(52)
Det ville være væsentligt mere interessant at terraforme Venus
02-08-2009 13:59
kulden-varmenProfilbillede★★★★★
(2086)
Fafner skrev:
Det ville være væsentligt mere interessant at terraforme Venus


Med en daglængde på ca 6 timer ville temperaturene nok være tålige, men planeten ville nok være noget støvet.


02-08-2009 14:25
GLARProfilbillede★★★★☆
(1023)
>>På den anden side så må mars være lidt nemmere at påvirke klimatisk end jorden, da mars ikke har alle disse forstyrrende havstrømme og kontinenter.<<

Ja...havene, kontinenterne og bjergkæderne er forstyrrende for klima-modellerne.

Mvh
03-08-2009 17:54
brinchProfilbillede★★☆☆☆
(313)
Fafner skrev:
Det ville være væsentligt mere interessant at terraforme Venus


Ja - Venus ligner Jorden mere i størrelse og dermed i tyngdekraft. Der er dog næsten ingen fri ilt i atmosfæren, og temperaturerne ligger mellem 400 og 500 gr C overalt på planeten. Døgnet er også temmelig forskelligt fra det, vi kender, men det kunne vi jo nok vænne os til.

Jeg finder ikke, det ville være det mindste uetisk at prøve, om vi kunne introducere iltproducerende livsformer på Venus. Hvordan dog det? - Alt det vi mennesker kan gøre, er jo en del af naturen! Fordi vi er en del af naturen. Alt hvad der findes i Universet, har naturen "skabt".

Om det er muligt, ved jeg ikke. Og hvad vi skulle bruge det til, ved jeg heller ikke. Indtil videre kan hele Jordens befolkning fint stå på Sjælland (godt 7 milliarder m2), - så det er vel ikke på grund af pladsmangel.

Venligst brinch
03-08-2009 18:38
Fafner
★☆☆☆☆
(52)
Om det er muligt, ved jeg ikke. Og hvad vi skulle bruge det til, ved jeg heller ikke.


Det er farligt kun at bo på en planet (og i et solsystem, en galakse osv...)
13-01-2010 09:10
sg17a
★★☆☆☆
(375)
Her er et spændende citat omkring øko-økonomi inden for sci-fi litteratur (Kim Stanley Robinson, Red Mars) - jeg ved godt det er på engelsk, men det spændende er at man relaterer energienheder direkte til værdien af ting:

"...he would ask the Acheron people both individually and severally what they thought the eventual Martian society should be like, and how it should be run. At Acheron this usually led directly to considerations of ecology, and its deformed offshoot economics; these to them were much more critical than politics, or what Marina called 'the supposed decision-making apparatus.' Marina and Vlad were particularly interesting on this topic, as they had worked out a system of equations for what they called 'eco-economics,' which always sounded to John like 'echo economics.' He liked listening to them explain the equations, and he asked them a lot of questions, learning about concepts like carrying capacity, coexistence, counteradaptation, legitimacy mechanisms, and ecologic efficiency. 'That's the only real measure of our contribution to the system,' Vlad would say. 'If you burn our bodies in a microbomb calorimeter you'll find we contain about six or seven kilocalories per gram of weight, and of course we take in a lot of calories to sustain that through our lives. Our output is harder to measure, because it's not a matter of predators feeding on us, as in the classic efficiency equations -- it's more a matter of how many calories we create by our efforts, or send on to future generations, something like that. And most of that is very indirect, naturally, and it involves a lot of speculation and subjective judgement. If you don't go ahead and assing values to a number of non-physical things, then electricians and plumbers and reactor builders and other infrastructural workers would always rate as the most productive members of society, while artists and the like would be seen as contributing nothing at all.' 'Sounds about right to me, ' John joked, but Vlad and Marina ignored him. 'Anyway that's a large part of what economics is -- people arbitrarily, or as a matter of taste, assigning numerical values to non-numerical things. And then pretending that they haven't just made the numbers up, which they have. Economics is like astrology in that sense, except that economics serves to justify the current power structure, and so it has a lot of fervent believers among the powerful.' 'Better just to concentrate on what we're doing here,' Marina put in. 'The basic equation is simple, efficiency merely equals the calories you put out, divded by the calories you take in, times one hundred to put it in the form of a percentage. In the classic sense of passing along calories to one's predator, ten percent was average, and twenty percent doing really well. Most predators at the tops of food chains did more like five percent.' 'That is why tigers have ranges of hundreds of square kilometers,' Vlad said. 'Robber barons are not really very efficient.' 'So tigers don't have predators not because they're so tough, but because it's not worth the effort,' John said. 'Exactly!' 'The problem is in calculating the values,' Marina said. 'We have had to simply assign certain calorie-equivalent numerical values to all kinds of activities, and then go on from there.' 'But we were talking about economics?' John said. 'But this is economics, don't you see, this is our eco-economics! Everyone should make their living, so to speak, based on a calculation of their real contribution to human ecology. Everyone can increase their ecological efficiency by efforts to reduce how many kilocalories they use -- this is the old Southern argument against the energy consumption of the Northern industrial nations. There was a real ecologic basis to that objection, because no matter how much the industrial nations produced, in the larger equation they could not be as efficient as the South.' 'They were predators on the South,' John said. 'Yes, and they will become predators on us too, if we let them. And like all predators their efficiency is low. But here, you see -- in this theoretical state of independence that you speak of --' she grinned at John's look of consternation -- 'you do, you have to admit that that is ultimately what you talk about all the time, John -- well, there it should be the law that people are rewarded in proportion to their contribution to the system.'
...
'How is this different from the economics that already exists?' They all scoffed at once, Marina most persistently: '...there's all kinds of phantom work! Unreal values assigned to most of the jobs on Earth! The entire transnational executive class does nothing a computer couldn't do, and there are whole categories of parasitical jobs that add nothing to the system by an ecological accounting. Advertising, stock brokerage, the whole apparatus for making money only from the manipulation of money -- that is not only wasteful but corrupting, as all meaningful money values get distorted in such manipulation.' She waved a hand in disgust. 'Well,' Vlad said, 'we can say that their efficiency is very low, and that they predate on the system without having any predators, so that they are either the top of the chain or parasitical, depending on how you define it. Advertising, money brokering, some types of manipulation of the law, some politics...' 'But all of these are subjective judgments!' John exclaimed. 'How have you actually assigned caloric values to such a variety of activities?' 'Well, we have done our best to calculate what they contribute back to the system in terms of well-being measured as a physical thing. What does the activity equal in terms of food, or water, or shelter, or clothing, or medical aid, or education, or free time? We've talked it over, and usually everyone at Acheron has offered a number, and we have taken the mean' ..."


http://www.canoe42.ca/node.php?id=red-mars
under afsnittet: p297-299 (John)
31-10-2010 13:30
sg17a
★★☆☆☆
(375)
Her er en ny britisk film på vej, som hedder ICE.
Med en rimelig solid skuespillerbesætning:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ZScxpNaHQ&feature=player_embedded




Deltag aktivt i debatten Science fiction-litteratur og klima:

Husk mig

Lignende indhold
DebatterSvarSeneste indlæg
Klimakatastrofer og litteratur018-11-2009 15:50
Artikler
Litteratur
▲ Til toppen
Afstemning
Vil Donald Trump trække USA ud af Paris-aftalen?

Ja

Nej

Ved ikke


Tak for støtten til driften af Klimadebat.dk.
Copyright © 2007-2016 Klimadebat.dk | Kontakt | Privatlivspolitik